Fifty Shades of Grey made $158M, globally, this weekend, breaking box office records everywhere. It’s rare for a movie like this one to rack in those kind of numbers, and it’s also rarer that such a popular film can generate this much controversy.
Fifty Shades is a sexy and provocative romance, but it also deals with a bunch of other topics, including abuse and the misrepresentation of the BDSM community.
We decided that it’s worth diving into these issues and discussing the Fifty Shades of Grey phenomenon. Four of The Young Folks writers with different perspectives on the film and books talk about the film, its characters, and their situations. Please note that we will be discussing spoilers from the movie and book series.
Gaby: Thanks for joining in our Fifty Shades of Grey discussion! I am Gabrielle Bondi, and here with Melissa Berne, Jon Espino, and Allyson Johnson.
Jon: Mr. Grey will see us now.
Gaby: So… what did you all think of the movie? Overall reaction?
Allyson: I’ll sit this one out.
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Gaby: Allyson, you can briefly explain why you chose not to see and support the film.
Jon: I thought it was fairly innocuous up until they revealed what was to be the explanation for why he is the way he is. I completely hated it after that point.
Melissa: I surprisingly really like it. It was entertaining, sexy, and Dakota is a highlight of the film. There was no voice-over, and you had to depend on her acting to understand her. She did great. I loved the music as well. It was well-placed.
Allyson: I find that the film is promoting sexual and emotional abuse and wrapping it up in a perverse love story package.
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Gaby: I thought it was such a lazy adaptation, and nothing was memorable about it cinematically. Also, for a romantic movie, it wasn’t romantic at all.
Jon: Dakota was great. Dornan was so stiff (and I’m not just talking sexually).
Gaby: LOL! I agree. Dornan was bad in it, which is a shame because he is talented. Dakota surprised me. She made Ana a little more interesting.
Melissa: While I wouldn’t say it was romantic, it was sexy as fuck. Not surprised it pulled in the numbers it did during this weekend.
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Allyson: I hope Johnson finishes this trilogy and runs far, far away.
Gaby: Speaking of the box office numbers, why do you think it’s so popular?
Jon: Sex sells.
Melissa: Because besides the sex, there is a love story there.
Gaby: There are a ton of books about sex though. It’s nothing new. Why did this particular story surge to such popularity?
Allyson: Sadly, it’s one of the few pop culture phenomenons that allows women to explore their sexuality, and women are huge supporters of film.
Jon: The sexual fantasy fills a basic need that our sexually repressed society has yet to fill.
Allyson: Even though the book is problematic—so to speak—there are few popular books that allow this type of sexual point of view for women.
Jon: I completely agree with this kind of sexual exploration as long as it’s consensual and limits are talked about beforehand.
Click [NEXT] to read our thoughts on Anastasia Steele.
[tps_title]The Virginal Anastasia Steele[/tps_title]
Gaby: Let’s talk about Ana then. She’s who we follow on this kind of sexual exploration.
Jon: I haven’t read the books, so I didn’t realize she was supposed to be a virgin.
Melissa: I think everything Ana did, she wanted to do… obviously.
Jon: I’m not sure I agree with jumping right into BDSM after not having any sexual experience prior to. I mean, how are you even supposed to know what you want to explore?
Gaby: I felt uncomfortable that she was a virgin and had admitted to having no sexual experience. Christian didn’t hesitate all that much to change that.
Allyson: It doesn’t seem that way from the book quotes. She’s impressionable, shy, and manipulated.
Melissa: Well, in the movie, she was all too willing to give it up.
Gaby: At first, she wanted to “make love.”
Melissa: And they did.
Jon: Was Grey a virgin when that older women became his Dom when he was 15?
Gaby: Yes.
Jon: Well, judging by the cigarette burns on his chest and how he didn’t seem too fond of the experience, isn’t he basically perpetuating the same cycle of abuse on another impressionable virgin?
Melissa: It was consensual between him and Mrs. Robinson.
Allyson: He was 15. Consensual isn’t even an applicable word when someone is underage.
Gaby: That’s true. And honestly, I’m glad that Ana recognized his relationship with Mrs. Robinson instantly as child abuse.
Melissa: Well, he seeks out people who want to do it too, so I don’t really see how that’s abusive.
Allyson: He seeks out a certain type of person who will agree to do it. Someone who is shy in life doesn’t mean they’ll be submissive.
Gaby: But Ana wasn’t down for a lot of that stuff at first. I know he tried respecting that with their contract negotiations, but you can tell she was trying to push herself to be open to it.
Jon: I have to say that I really enjoyed the entire negotiation scene. It was pretty close to how discussing boundaries and limits actually go in these types of relationships/encounters.
Gaby: I did enjoy the contract scene too. I felt like it was the only scene with some visual/directing flair.
Melissa: I don’t think he’s after “shy” people. He didn’t even know that she was a virgin at first. Gaby, that was her choice. He didn’t force it upon her.
Gaby: Well, he gave her an unspoken ultimatum. He can’t be with her unless there’s a contract. Sure, eventually, he begins to let it go, but it’s not exactly a healthy start to a relationship.
Allyson: It just seems like that contract is where the respect ends. Like there’s so much more to the BDSM culture than the submissive being a living, breathing sex toy.
Jon: At one point, doesn’t he just basically take her, even though they both acknowledged she never signed the contract? So she kind of went into it without protection.
Melissa: And again…she made that choice.
Jon: So to speak.
Allyson: I think the big thing is abuse isn’t always obvious. He was emotionally manipulative. And he stalks her, right? LOL. He seems like a charmer.
Jon: That’s true, Allyson. The dynamic he is looking for fits less of the dom/sub one and more of a master/slave one, which is a more extreme version of the former.
Allyson: It just seems like it’s all the set up for a BDSM relationship with none of the payoff.
Gaby: Someone made a point that if Christian were poor and/or unattractive; his behavior would be considered creepy without question.
Allyson: That’s very true, Gaby. It’s all about perceptions.
Gaby: In the movie though, we don’t get as much insight into Ana’s thoughts. We could argue that Ana might have not felt emotionally manipulated at all. I mean, she is a grown woman, if naive, should we respect her decision to move forward with the relationship?
Melissa: Um…. Yes. LOL.
Allyson: But isn’t that part of the problem? That we don’t get insight to her thoughts?
Melissa: No, girl. Her inner goddess is annoying as fuck.
Jon: Manipulation is so insidious and pervasive that usually the person getting manipulated doesn’t know they are being manipulated. Especially sexually, since she has had no point of reference up to that point.
Gaby: We don’t get insight into Christian’s mind either. They aren’t very forthcoming with each other.
Allyson: I guess the problem is not that we don’t know if she’s comfortable with it, but that we’re supposed to accept what’s happening as if it’s not problematic.
Melissa: He had told her what he was into before they did anything. She could have walked away.
Allyson: Again, the thing about manipulation is that it’s hard to detect. So it’s not so easy that she could have walked away.
Gaby: We do see some changes in Christian as he begins to do “more” things for Ana than he ever did with past submissives. “More” = romantic.
Jon: I don’t like how they both enter a relationship with the unspoken intent to change the other person. You never start a relationship with that idea.
Melissa: Well, in the film, I don’t feel like she was manipulated.
Gaby: Technically, in the book or movie, Ana never feels manipulated by Christian. That is perceived by the audience who place themselves in Ana’s shoes and reacts to the story. Ana isn’t very fleshed out as a character. It sort of explains why there are such visceral reactions on both sides of the spectrum.
Melissa: Yup.
Allyson: I don’t think the author was bright enough to write the book with any nuance and ended up writing an abusive “love story.”
Melissa: But you perceive it as abusive.
Allyson: No, I think it’s definitely abusive.
Melissa: But you haven’t seen the film?
Allyson: No, but I’ve read passages from the book, and I’m active in a society that’s against stories that glamorize abuse.
Jon: I just look at the story with my own experience with the BDSM community, more as a third person observer than actually being part of it.
Gaby: The thing is in the real world, I can see this being abusive. As a fairy tale, it can be that they both have good intentions.
Click [NEXT] to read our thoughts on Christian Grey.
[tps_title]Talking about all of those shades of Grey.[/tps_title]
Gaby: We’ve already touched on him, but what are your thoughts on Christian?
Allyson: Asshole about sums it up for me. LOL. That’s about it.
Jon: The thing that bothered me most about the film was how they basically said that his sexually adventurist tastes are all because of his abusive childhood.
Allyson: Which is an unhealthy message to send out.
Jon: “Fifty shades of fucked up “is the quote he used to describe himself.
Gaby: I feel bad that he comes from a shitty past, but at the same time, his obsessive behavior pisses me off and makes me uncomfortable.
Allyson: A damaged upbringing never excuses abuse… which I think people seem to forget.
Gaby: I feel like he has the potential to be a fascinating character, maybe if they didn’t set him in a romance.
Jon: It’s a terrible message to send, and it’s such an incorrectly stereotyped view on a culture that is less about pain and more about consensual pleasure.
Allyson: Yeah, the BDSM culture is about painful pleasure sure, but there’s also a strong emphasis on things like After Care and making sure the Sub is comfortable and feels safe, which looks like it’s glossed over.
Melissa: So, do all people in the community not come from a painful past? Wouldn’t BDSM be cathartic for them?
Allyson: I’m sure there are some.
Jon: I’m part of the community, and I’m not from a broken home or painful past, just like all of my friends who are also part of the community.
Allyson: But sex is usually far removed from how you grow up. It’s based on your personality and what you enjoy. It’s like all sex; it’s about what you enjoy.
Jon: It’s about sexual exploration, and finding new things you enjoy. You will encounter things you might not, so you know never to do them again.
Melissa: And that’s what Ana was doing since she has no experience…
Jon: But it’s all about creating a safe environment to try them. But she has had no sexual experience to begin with. You usually go into these things knowing some things you want to try, based on your past experience. Like, “Oh, I like it when this part of my body is stimulated, maybe I’ll like trying this.”
Allyson: Yeah, it’s not just loss of virginity straight to hand cuffs. LOL
Gaby: I think the problem with this relationship is that it wasn’t entirely BDSM or entirely vanilla, and you’re dealing with a virgin, who seems not know better or what exactly she’s getting herself into.
Melissa: But she did that with the contract. She said what she did want and didn’t want.
Jon: She didn’t even know what a butt plug was, and I think the description is in the name. LOL
Gaby: It’s basically the fact that she walks into the room, not sure what to expect, and it’s going to happen to her.
Jon: Then, she basically let him continue without her expressed written consent.
Allyson: I think she didn’t truly know what she was getting into. It was a basic trope of a woman being sexually uneducated and a man coming and enlightening her.
Gaby: It’s just most people wouldn’t be so easy to trust someone with that kind of power. So it’s hard to imagine after such a short amount of time, she trusts him.
Jon: It may have been her decision, but it was a terrible one at that, and it sends the wrong message.
Melissa: But you said it, it was HER decision.
Jon: Yeah, but she was basing it on no previous knowledge and probably without fully understanding it, which does not equal consent in my opinion.
Gaby: Not everyone is smart enough to realize that they shouldn’t emulate what they see in movies or TV. I think that’s why people are saying that Ana, who is the main character in such a big popular movie, is making a bad decision. Because others might think they can enter that same kind of relationship and have the same outcome.
Allyson: Especially since the readership is so primarily female. Women already are stigmatized when they’re in abusive relationships that aren’t obviously abusive.
Gaby: Whether we like the movie or not, we all know not to go into something like this blind and trusting. It doesn’t work like that in the real world, unfortunately. It’s proven that people tend to mimic what they see and hear on media.
Click [NEXT] to read our thoughts on the film’s surprise ending.
[tps_title]The Surprise Ending[/tps_title]
Jon: I might need some clarification from book readers on this: That spanking scene. What lead up to that?
Gaby: What you saw in the movie. She wanted him to open up, and he was pissed off about something going wrong, which he didn’t elaborate on. She saw that he felt like he wasn’t in control, and the only way to help him was to let him punish her.
Jon: I felt like before, even though he was obsessive and a bit manipulative, he still showed a facade of respect for her well-being and pleasure. This seemed completely out of character and really, kind of out of left field.
Gaby: Christian does love her. He just goes about it in a fucked up way, honestly.
Jon: None of that screamed love to me. It screamed unnecessary pain and torture.
Gaby: That’s why I was disappointed by how unromantic the movie is. The book definitely felt more romantic, if cheesy at times.
Jon: And how it ended in a worst-case scenario very easily.
Gaby: What did you think of her decision at the end?
Jon: I think she should have left much sooner. Instead, she spent the night at his place.
Gaby: I wanted to clap. I loved it. I felt it was the first time she really spoke her feelings, unafraid of the consequences.
Jon: I loved how powerful her “No” was. But to be honest, even though that was one of my favorite moments of the film, I was already done with it early on. It was fairly irredeemable.
Gaby: I loved how powerful it was too. Like damn, she put this overbearing dude in his place.
Jon: This is what I thought of when she said no. It was forceful,and kind of surprising, but really powerful.
Gaby: LOL, I didn’t think of that. But yeah, totally agree.
Allyson: Yeah, and we know with two sequels on the way that it doesn’t last. LOL
Melissa: I think it was a good decision because after literally asking him to spank her, she decided that she didn’t want that. She decides that she can’t be what he wants, and she decides to leave the situation on her own accord just as she entered it.
Jon: But she left after knowing what she was getting into. If she had the experience to know ahead of time, I doubt she would ever agree to enter it in the first place.
Allyson: But aren’t there passages in the book that describe her making sob-like noises? Most Doms would have eased up. Like that goes from being sexy to being abusive pretty damn fast.
Jon: Yeah, sobbing is a sign you need to stop.
Melissa: Yeah, but it wasn’t like that. She decided she wanted to experience it.
Gaby: She’s only sobbing in that last scene. The other times she enjoyed it.
Allyson: I was talking about the last scene specifically.
Jon: She wanted to experience what he was fully capable of?
Gaby: Also, she knew about the safe words. She could’ve said Yellow or Red. But then, her inexperience made her forget about the safe words probably.
Jon: When you’re in that much pain, you can’t really think of much else except the number you’re being told to count to and hoping it ends soon.
Allyson: And being in pain and crying can make you choke on your words a bit.
Gaby: That’s true.
Allyson: Here’s the quote from the book: “I close myself, bracing myself for the blow. It comes hard, snapping across my backside, and the bite of the belt is everything I fear…His breathing is ragged and harsh, whereas mine is almost nonexistent as I desperately scrabble around my psyche looking for some internal strength. The belt cuts into my flesh again…ow the tears are streaming down my face. I don’t want to cry. It angers me that I am crying. He hits me again….as the blistering pain cuts across me again, and I hear him drop the belt behind me, and he’s pulling me into his arms, all breathless and compassionate….” (506)
That’s not romance.
Gaby: Is that from the last scene?
Allyson: Yes.
Gaby: I don’t think that was ever meant to be romantic because she leaves him shortly after.
Allyson: Maybe not, but I think it should be looked at as abuse.
Jon: If she truly consented or if it could be counted as consent could be debated for hours, but what can’t be argued with is how damaging this story is to all the youth who think this is what the BDSM community is all about. Some will be turned off by it, while others will go into it misinformed and might not be ready.
Allyson: But how are we ever supposed to see Christian as a romantic figure?
Jon: He’s rich and sexy, duh.
Melissa: He changes a bit in the sequels…
Gaby: I think people like the way he’s obsessively in love with her. Plus, he’s rich and beautiful.
Allyson: But that’s such a problem!
Melissa: Yeah, he’s got fucked control and overprotective issues.
Allyson: And he’s also not THAT attractive.
Gaby: But to Ana, he is THAT attractive.
Allyson: Ugh. Like she’s so hot, why she is settling for such an abusive loser? It makes no sense.
Gaby: Ana doesn’t think she’s hot. She has self-esteem issues.
Allyson: Again, another problem.
Jon: So he is preying on her self-esteem issues?
Melissa: No.
Gaby: Also, it fits right into that fantasy of wanting to nurture and take care of someone. Like you can change this man.
Allyson: Wouldn’t it be amazing one of these days to see a film about a self-assured woman who loves herself and is sexually confident and doesn’t need a man to hit her to feel loved?
Gaby: This is Hollywood, Allyson. But you’re right. I wish there were more movies like that.
Jon: That could have been Robinson’s role if they hadn’t made her a child abuser. But what I dislike the most is that they are portraying the dominate characters as having some sort of abusive past or sexual issues. Christian Grey with his childhood, and Robinson with her pedophilia. Instead, this story reverts to damaging and outdated notions of romance.
Allyson: I know, but just because it’s the status quo for women to be written without agency doesn’t mean I won’t complain about.
Click [NEXT] to read our thoughts on the film.
[tps_title]Final thoughts on Fifty Shades of Grey[/tps_title]
Gaby: Final thoughts/arguments? Should people feel guilty for enjoying the movie?
Jon: One of the top reasons people in abusive relationships don’t leave their partners is because 1) They think they can change them & 2) Because they aren’t always abusive/sometimes show compassion and kindness.
Melissa: I had a problem with her self-esteem issues and his control issues. I never assumed anything about the BDSM community, actually. But it’s a story, and it’s being told. I don’t think that’s a problem because there’s going to be all sorts of stories, and some aren’t puppies and rainbows. No, I’m very into not being ashamed for liking something.
Allyson: I don’t think people should feel guilty because movies are about escapism, and this is a pleasurable one for women. What’s done is done, I suppose. But it’s a film that should be looked at with an educated lens. It shows just how screwed up the masses’ perception of love is and leads people to paint women, men and sexuality as a whole in such unflattering and unfortunate ways.
Gaby: I have issues with the movie, especially with Christian’s behavior. But I’m also glad about all of the discussion and awareness the movie is creating across the internet. I feel like even if we don’t agree with the movie, we can use it to gain attention to issues we care about it.
Jon: Being part of the BDSM community, I can appreciate this film for starting a dialogue about sexual exploration, especially for women who have been historically repressed in that area. What I can’t get past are all the negative stereotypes and the spread of misinformation this film perpetuates. At its core, it demonizes and stigmatizes the community with its slander.
Thanks for reading!
What are you thoughts on Fifty Shades of Grey and the topics we discussed? Share in the comments.
To read an extra from our conversation, click “NEXT.”
[tps_title]BONUS Fun Convo [/tps_title]
Jon: There was such a sexually dense silence during the sex scenes, full of deep, heavy breathing.
Melissa: No, there was Beyoncé. LMAO.
Jon: I was laughing hysterically at some moments.
Gaby: “Haunted” was really mixed well into that one sex scene.
Melissa: Yessssssss!
Jon: Except when Beyoncé was on. Have to respect that.
Melissa: The movie was very funny.
Gaby: I laughed at some stuff too. Like come on… I love Ana’s drunken scene too. Also, why did she have a flip phone? He gave her A CAR AND LAPTOP, but not a smartphone.
Melissa: That was one of my faves. The drunk scene is hilarious.
Jon: OMG, I have a question. In the book, does Grey have a specific pair of sex jeans?
Gaby: Yeah, he does.
Melissa: He does?
Gaby: Yeah! A pair of ripped jeans.
Allyson: …sex jeans? That seems unsexy.
Jon: Yeah, sex jeans. LOL.
Gaby: I remembered that because it made think of Abercrombie & Fitch, and I was like “Ew, why?”
Jon: Do they have a history? Like from his Robinson days?
Gaby: No. He just likes to wear those jeans when he’s the playroom.
Allyson: LOL.
Jon: I do like how it openly acknowledged its cheesy dialogue.
Melissa: Yes, it’s a little meta sometimes.
Jon: With puns about binding and tying.
Melissa: And its little innuendos.
Gaby: There is no way it would be as entertaining if they didn’t acknowledge it. LOL. Some of the shit E.L. James wrote is just way beyond bad.
Melissa: Yeah, too bad she was heavily involved with the movie.
Jon: I can’t even imagine what the sequel will be or why she would return to him. Also, they never showed her working, right?
Gaby: They never show him working. I don’t even know what he actually does.
Melissa: He’s in front of his laptop, or on his phone. LOL
Jon: Well, he’s taking business calls and has an office. Does she work for one of his companies? Or intern? Or something?
Gaby: I don’t know the kind of business he does. LOL.
Melissa: She works in the sequel. Some publishing house…
Gaby: She gets a job at a publisher, and then he buys the company.
Jon: …the fuck?
Allyson: Ew.
Melissa: Yeah, overbearing.
Gaby: To say the least.
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